Intro: 0:12

Hello and welcome to The Broken Pack, a podcast focused on giving sibling loss survivors a platform to share their stories and to be heard, something that many sibling loss survivors state that they never have had. Sibling loss is misunderstood. The Broken Pack exists to change that and to support survivors. I'm your host, Dr. Angela Dean. Today, I'm joined by Amanda Miller. In January 2024, Amanda lost her younger sister, Shawna, who was three months pregnant, and her nephew, Jett's father, all in one sudden car crash. She's here to share Shawna's story and to make sure Shawna's name keeps being said. Take a listen.

Dr. Angela Dean: 1:02

So welcome to the show. How would you like to introduce yourself to our listeners?

Amanda Miller: 1:06

My name is Amanda Miller. I'm Shawna's big sister. I currently live right outside of St. Paul, Minnesota.

Dr. Angela Dean: 1:12

Thank you. So you mentioned being Shawna's big sister. How would you like to introduce Shawna to us?

Amanda Miller: 1:19

Shawna was my little sister. She was 30 years old when she passed away. She was the typical baby of the family. She had everything she wanted and everybody appeased her whenever she asked for anything. So really the typical baby sister of a big blended family. We had between the two families, my mom and her wife, they have seven children together and Shawna was the youngest. One big part of Shawna was that she was a mom. When she passed away, her son was eight years old. His name as Jett and she was also expecting so she was going to be a mom again when she passed away three months pregnant.

Dr. Angela Dean: 1:58

Yeah thank you for that. I always think as the younger sibling that I don't think my brother would have said that about me being the baby of the family. It's so interesting. What was your relationship like with Shawna?

Amanda Miller: 2:11

So it kind of ebbed and flowed similar to most siblings. We, in our immediate family, my mom and dad have four children. So I have an older brother who's 42, and then my older sister, Jamie. My brother's name is Tony. My older sister, Jamie, is 39. I'm 36, and then Shawna was 30 when she passed away. We're all very close in age. When my parents got divorced, Jamie, myself, and Shawna most of the time lived with my father. So with us being kind of separated from our mom when she was younger, I kind of was a mother figure to her. And so we kind of took care of each other. My dad worked a lot to take care of us. Then we'd go spend time with my mom. She lived about three hours away during this time. Kind of was looking back at pictures, preparing for this. And one thing I noticed was every picture that Shawna was around, I was either holding her in my lap or holding her hand. I look back and I see that I was always doning on her. It was a very special relationship. And then teenage years, very typical. We shared a room for most of our upbringing because our older sister had the other room by herself. And things were kind of normal growing up. When she graduated high school and ventured out on her own and I became a mom, things were a little bit more different just because I didn't always agree with her choices. And with me being the middle child, I very much take the role of peacemaker and all that. So I was one of the only ones in our family that would tell Shawna my true feelings about things. I didn't really like to sugarcoat being a sister to her because I wanted what was best for her always. I looked at it as like I was the tough love. But she must have appreciated it because whenever she had issues, she would usually come to me. So at the moment, she didn't like my answers maybe, but I think she always knew that it was coming from a really special part of my heart.

Dr. Angela Dean: 4:17

Well, and you described having been a little bit of a mother figure to her. So that makes sense. that you're giving her the tough love as well. What was the age difference?

Amanda Miller: 4:27

So it was four years. Yeah. She would be 31. Yeah, so four years. It's weird when you start to think in that terms of how old they should be.

Dr. Angela Dean: 4:40

Yeah, it's absolutely a weird thing to consider. We're aging and they are or they are not. Some people have different views on that. How was the relationship later as adults?

Amanda Miller: 4:52

When she became a mom, of course, we kind of bonded in that way. I remember before we even found out she was expecting with Jett. But I remember her being at my mom's house and asking me questions about being a mom. And I didn't really know where it came from because I just thought she was, I don't know, maybe impressed with my parenting. So I thought maybe she was asking the questions for that reason. And just things like, well, how do you know what to do and kind of those things. And then soon after we found out what she was expecting. So it really made sense. She knew at the time, but she hadn't shared with us. So she was kind of preparing for motherhood. We lived about an hour away from each other from the time I moved out of the house. So I didn't see her all the time, but our family is very close. We spend all the holidays together and different times throughout the year. We would all gather at my mom's house and spend together. So it was a similar relationship as in I sometimes had to keep my distance from her because it was kind of hard to always have to disagree with her. Especially after I became a mom I just sometimes needed to have some of that distance for my own mental health so yeah she was a pain in my butt most of the time but again she called me I would be there for her you know so it's kind of that opposite spectrum there it.

Dr. Angela Dean: 6:20

Strikes me too that you said she was pregnant when she died as well so it's a complicated loss you lost her and her baby.

Amanda Miller: 6:29

Yeah, the part that's most complicated about that, she was having another child with the same father that Jett had. And one thing about losing Shawna, I didn't share in the beginning, was that Jett lost his dad in the same crash. So Jett, on that same day, lost his mom, his dad, and his baby brother or sister. We're not sure what she was expecting. Yeah. And the hard part is, is I was not particularly happy that she was expecting again because the summer prior to her expecting her and Jett's father were not together for a few months. And so when she got back with him, I wasn't happy about it because their relationship wasn't ideal. And so I think that's part that's really hard is that I never told her I was happy.

Dr. Angela Dean: 7:21

Do you think she knew that inherently?

Amanda Miller: 7:23

Yeah. Yeah. I don't hold any of that guilt because I know, similar to all of our other conversations, she always knew whenever I was hard on her, it always came from a really special place in my heart for her because she just knew I always wanted the best for her.

Dr. Angela Dean: 7:41

Well, how is Jett doing today? Do you see him?

Amanda Miller: 7:45

Yeah. So after losing Shawna, my mom filed for guardianship of Jett. Prior to losing Shawna, my mom and her wife were foster parents and took care of medically fragile children. So for them, it was kind of a no-brainer that they've taken care of a lot of kids throughout the years that needed somewhere. And so it was almost like it was preparing them for this moment. So we really quickly after filed for the guardianship. And when I think back to it, it seems so far away, but also just yesterday that we had to do all this stuff. So she got guardianship and conservatorship. So everything worked out that way. We didn't really have any issues. There was no back and forth. So Jett lives with my mom and they lived about an hour away. He's really thriving in the circumstances. He has two grandmas that bring him breakfast every morning on a tray, you know? Yes, because that's what grandmas do. Yes, he had to move schools again, which was really hard because he unfortunately had to move schools quite a bit in just kindergarten and first grade. But he has really gotten into a place where he's thriving in the fact that he's learning so much and he's really well-rounded. We talk about Shawna all the time. And so he really is great about sharing. If we're doing something and he has a memory of Shawna, he shares it with us. So in those aspects, when you think of a child who's lost both parents, there's good days and bad days. But overall, it's such a difference in Jett two years ago with school an d just seeing him smile. I live outside of St. Paul with my husband, Taurean, and our two daughters. So Jett loves coming here because we have a trampoline in the back and a playground and all the things that kids love. It is, I think, a plan for them coming up after this next school year that they do want to move closer to me because I have been a big support for them and it takes a village for myself as well. It would be really nice to have my mom close by.

Dr. Angela Dean: 9:46

Absolutely. What would you like to share about losing Shawna?

Amanda Miller: 9:50

I remember the day very vividly, which I'm sure most people can relate to. It was a normal Friday. It was January 19, 2024. Earlier that day, I had gone to a field trip with my younger daughter, Aria. And then we left school early because my girls both had dentist appointments. And so we did that. And then we had gone to Target, which was in that same parking lot. But as I was leaving Target, I saw my mom calling and it's not uncommon because I do talk to her. And so I pulled over in the parking lot and answered the phone and it was on speakerphone in my car, which is normal again, because I talk to her often and she likes to talk to her granddaughters. And I just remember her saying, Shawna is dead. And she said she got into a car accident and her and Darren are dead. And right away I asked where is Jett? Because at this time it was 3.30. So I didn't know if I had been like on the way home from school. Jett was at school because it had happened about three hours prior but because severity of the crash they weren't able to get her id or anything out of the car so when they notified, darren's parents because they are the owners of the car they shared that it was Shawna so then they were able to identify her that way one thing about finding out in the car that day when i've Think back to it, I remember hearing a scream. For many months, I thought it was my daughter, my 10-year-old. There was a time after that we were talking about it with all as a family. And my stepmom, Dawn, she said, Amanda, that was you that screamed. Yeah, and I don't remember that. I just remember hearing it. So we got off the phone, and I'm in the parking lot of Target, and called my husband because he was at home. And he was going to come pick me up, but we weren't far from home. So I drove home and I knew I had to start packing to go to my mom. So, yeah, it was that moment of shock. I still drove home, not really even understanding.

Dr. Angela Dean: 12:08

Mm hmm.

Amanda Miller: 12:11

I got home and already about 30 minutes later, it was already on the news. And there's a picture of the crash because I had called one of my close friends and told her. And right away when she looked it up, she found it. It's almost like they waited just for my mom to find out and then they put it out for everyone to see.

Dr. Angela Dean: 12:31

A couple things strike me about that is I won't say most of us, but most of the people that I've talked to, including myself, you get that news. and then you have to share with your family members, right? But your daughters heard it at the same time as you.

Amanda Miller: 12:45

Yeah.

Dr. Angela Dean: 12:47

I wonder if you were trying to navigate how they were also dealing with this horribly shocking news.

Amanda Miller: 12:55

I don't even remember even talking to them after that. I think when I got home, my husband took that over. Because I just went into, we had a third bedroom at our previous house and I was trying to from the laundry just gather clothes and I was hyper ventilating and I'd never had a panic attack before that day but I just kind of stopped there knowing I had to hurry up and pack so I could get to my parents but also not wanting to be there you know there was that pull of like I know I need to go but I didn't want to have to deal with that Yeah. Because I knew that would be really hard.

Dr. Angela Dean: 13:41

In the grief counseling class that I teach, I was just talking to them about the role of media and some of these tragic accidents. And there is a movement to work with the media to handle this a little bit more gently. And it sounds like, unfortunately, that wasn't your experience of your sister's death.

Amanda Miller: 14:03

Usually in my family, I'm the one who is the caretaker for people. And so I'd ask my mom who's going to call my dad because he lives alone. And he's about two and a half hours from me and about an hour and a half from my mom and my brother who live right by each other. And then my older sister lives in Georgia. So thankfully, my brother called my dad because I made that call. So i packed everything and i my husband brought us over there because he knew i couldn't drive it's an hour drive but yeah it took a while i didn't get over there until probably two almost three hours later just because i couldn't pack i couldn't think i you know it's just that moment of you know what you need to do but like your body is not moving and then people were calling me because my dad's from a really small town and he got the call when he was at the bar having his happy hour on a Friday and so being in a public place everybody found out really quickly which is okay because again I don't think my dad would have been able to share that news with anybody so he was able to just you know get in the car and go and then there's people that were able to kind of share with his extended family.

Dr. Angela Dean: 15:31

That feels really heavy. I love that. Traumatic, sudden loss for sure.

Amanda Miller: 15:38

Yeah. And then we had to figure out how to get my sister from Georgia, all in the same whirlwind of emotion. This was Friday and she was able to get here Sunday morning. So it was very quick that she was able to get here. She was an organ donor, so we had to speak to them about that stuff. We had to talk to the medical examiner all these things that had to happen and it was happening never thought of it that all these things are asked of you, the moment you lose your person and my mom couldn't do it and so I was put on the phone with everybody, so to protect my mom I kind of took over but you know it was just like to protect her I was willing to do that but it's also I wish it could have been, a different sibling.

Dr. Angela Dean: 16:27

It's interesting because a lot of people I've talked to, both on this podcast and in my professional work, it is oftentimes the sibling that is making these decisions or doing some of those logistical things. And I think it's partly we want to protect our parents, but it can delay your ability to process what's happening.

Amanda Miller: 16:47

Yes, definitely. Another aspect of all of this, when the cop came to my mom's door, he informed us that the day, of the crash that morning that Shawna signed paperwork for full custody of Jett we didn't know that so they were asking a lot of questions surrounding the relationship because of what happened that morning we all had the same questions we didn't know what happened we didn't know where they were going we didn't know anything we just knew that Jett was dropped off at school and then And they were traveling east on Highway 7. And that's all we knew. My mom was able to ask Darren's mom if she knew where they were going. And they were going to pick up her vehicle from the shop. Actually, we didn't know that at that time. Because all we had heard from her was that Shawna's vehicle was not at the house. And so we were like, well, where would her car be? And so we mentioned that to the detectives that had reached out. That we didn't know where her car was because that seemed weird to us. That she was riding with him and then her car wasn't at the house. We just didn't know where her car was. Judd had been picked up from his other grandparents there inside the family from school. And so he was with them in this day. And they had shared the news with him, what happened to his parents. So the next day, after I'd found out that she had signed paperwork, I have a legal background. And so I very much was interested in finding out more about what the detectives had told us. So I tried to search, and I was able to find the attorney she was using. I didn't really sleep that night. I slept on the couch by my mom and neither of us slept. So I woke up early and I called the attorney that was representing Shawna because I needed to know what it was that she signed that day. And also to share with him that she was gone. I didn't know if he was expecting to hear from her. So we found out that news and then the next day when we went to go pick up my sister from the airport my dad rode with me because I needed to get my vehicle because my husband had dropped and while we were driving we knew that Shawna had a Buick and I knew that there was a dealership right off the highway my wheels are always turning it's just kind of my personality so I told my dad I said if we pull into this parking lot at this Buick dealership because we knew that's where she had got the car. I was like, if we see her car, would you know it was hers or not? Because it was a newer vehicle, she hadn't been driving it for long. And he said he would, because the summer before losing her, she bought a house in my dad's hometown. So he was very familiar with her car and he knew there was like a little scratch on a certain spot. So we pulled in and right in front was her vehicle. So then we started putting some puzzle pieces together, and figured out that they were on the way to pick up her vehicle from the shop.

Dr. Angela Dean: 20:00

Are you an attorney?

Amanda Miller: 20:02

No, I work in a corporate law firm. I'm a paralegal.

Dr. Angela Dean: 20:06

Got it. So you know enough about the law.

Amanda Miller: 20:08

I do. Yeah. And it's just my mind goes always to those things. So I look up things often. I kind of go that road a lot of times. And so I did call the detective and let him know that we found her car because I didn't know if they had a search out for it or I wasn't sure I just didn't want them to put any resources when I kind of did the work right yeah sounds.

Dr. Angela Dean: 20:32

Like you're very much a problem solver.

Amanda Miller: 20:33

Yeah and.

Dr. Angela Dean: 20:34

Also in grief we want to have the answer so that sounds like that was helpful.

Amanda Miller: 20:39

Yeah I remember with one of your recent interviews you talked about the different kind of grievers and very much resonated with me because I'm very much like a doer but also, emotional so I'm kind of the hybrid of the two the.

Dr. Angela Dean: 20:55

Blended grieving style in that week there was a lot to do you said that you went into all of the logistical calling everybody doing all of the things but how was that.

Amanda Miller: 21:06

Week yeah it was the worst week of my life for a lot of reasons I took work off. My kids stayed at my mom's and took school off. My husband stayed home so he could work. But that was also a comfort. And so... As much as I wanted to be with my family, I really wanted to be at home with my husband. We've been together for 20 years, so it's very much a comfort at this point. So there was many times that I would just go into the other room and just call him. Because I just needed to be away from the family because it's a lot. As you know, everyone grieves differently. So it was tough because some people choose to drink to help grief. And then there was just like a lot of the logistics that. I was tasked with. We had to drive out to the funeral home, which was about two hours away from my mom's house. And we had a call for flowers and we had to meet with the church and we had all these things. Of course, it's my mom and dad's decision on stuff. But a lot of times they look to me for answers. Even at the funeral home, my dad, whenever he would make a decision, he'd always at me and be like, do you agree? And I'm like, yes, dad. I was like, you don't need my approval. So it just was a lot of added pressure to kind of take care of my kids, take care of my mom, take care of my dad, try to be there for my whole family. And at the same time, I was struggling.

Dr. Angela Dean: 22:45

I don't want to make this assumption, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Wow. It sounds like with the blended family, too, this was probably not a common occurrence where your whole family was coming together.

Amanda Miller: 22:57

Yeah, not a common occurrence. A lot of times our family, my immediate family, and that kind of who was at my mom's was my mom and my dad's kids. My step-siblings, which I usually don't even call them that because my mom has been with her partner for 30 years. that we really did grow up. They didn't come to my mom because they knew it was going to be a lot just for all of us to be in the same house. It was during the middle of the week, so people had work and kids had school and all that. So we didn't really get together as a big family until we went to my hometown to stay at Shawna's house for the time. She still owned the house that she had bought.

Dr. Angela Dean: 23:42

What was it like to be in her house without her there.

Amanda Miller: 23:47

It was really hard. I'd only been there two other times because she had just bought it in July before. So it only had been five months of coming into her house and seeing her thing. She had been staying with Darren and Jett had moved schools, but the house was very much still filled with her stuff as if she was going to be coming back. I mean, her closet was full. Her drawers were full. There's still food in the cabinets. Just to be there with her stuff and her not be there. It was really tough because she loved that house. It was something she was very proud of. She loved everything about it, and she just wanted to show it off to everybody. And there were some people in our family that weren't able to ever see it with her. So this was her first time coming.

Dr. Angela Dean: 24:38

Thank you for sharing that. How have you been in that period since then? And I realized that's a lot of time and still also.

Amanda Miller: 24:48

Not a lot of time so I took it was about a week maybe you know seven days off work recently my employers switched their bereavement time which I was happy about in that moment but it was still January so I I was hesitant to take more time off because I didn't know what the rest of the year was going to bring, and it's a good thing that I didn't take more time off because unfortunately later in the year my grandpa passed away.

Dr. Angela Dean: 25:15

I'm sorry.

Amanda Miller: 25:16

I needed more time off. So I was very lucky in the fact that I work at 3M in St. Paul here and they have a employee assistance program. And if you are having a tough time, you can be connected with a counselor. So I definitely reached out immediately because I was like, where do I go from here? I'm expected to go back to work. I worked from home at that time, so it wasn't me having to go into an office and see people and explain, but it still was very isolating because my husband is at work, my kids are at school, and I'm just sitting in my home office, not even understanding that I have to work, but there's no possible way I can function. I spent a few days talking with the grief, and she was actually, her 9-to-5 job is a grief counselor. So that was really a blessing of being connected with her. I had talked to her a different time for other issues that come up in life. So I knew her a little bit that way. And so then when I was able to connect with her again, she shared that she works as a grief counselor. It was the perfect pairing. And she listened to me. She let me talk about my feelings, all the great things that counselors do. But she also was able to provide some really helpful resources.

Dr. Angela Dean: 26:39

I'm so glad to hear that you were connected with someone that knows about grief, because a lot of people in our field don't. So yeah, I'm glad to hear that. What resources were most helpful for you?

Amanda Miller: 26:51

One of the first ones she provided, because she also knew that a lot of the sadness and, you know, everything like that was for, I know I'm struggling, but I also have two kids struggling. I don't need just adult resources. I need something to be able to know how to help my nephew. One of those resources is a place here in the Twin Cities called Brighter Days Family Grief Center. They're a nonprofit that is there for the whole family. I jotted down all the stuff she told me, and when I looked at their website, I reached out and sent an email briefly saying what had happened. And immediately, the director there, Carolyn, reached back out and gave her contact info so they could be there for us.

Dr. Angela Dean: 27:36

That's fantastic to hear. If it's okay, I'll put that info in the show notes.

Amanda Miller: 27:41

She was able to tell me about grief counseling around the cities and mention that, unfortunately, there is usually a wait list. For all counseling, but I think grief counseling, like you mentioned, there's a lot of people in the field that don't have that ability. So we do have a counseling network nearby here that's called Family Mean. They used to be called Center for Grief. I called and got my name on the wait list. I knew that I was going to need that as a resource. And so I didn't want to wait and then wait longer. And the wait really wasn't very long, thankfully. Another one that I was given was called the Compassionate Friends. I joined the sibling group there, which is very helpful because, again, there's not a lot of resources for grief and then even less for siblings. And so I kind of spent the next few days and probably weeks and months just searching for resources. And one of those was your podcast that I found and started listening to very early on. I was somebody who listened to podcasts often when I would work and a lot of that was true crime before and I knew that wouldn't be that wouldn't be what I was continuing to listen to.

Dr. Angela Dean: 28:56

It's interesting because I have a client that's not a sibling, but the grief actually has made her listen to true crime, which really parallels what has happened in her life. And I just always wonder how people approach that because it can be different for everyone. I personally wouldn't listen to anything about death unless it was about grief.

Amanda Miller: 29:14

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Angela Dean: 29:16

But I'm glad you found us.

Amanda Miller: 29:17

Yes. It was very helpful because, again, when you're early in your grief, you think that everything that you're going through, abnormal. You're like, I'm feeling this, but nobody else could possibly be feeling this. And just the fact that you can listen to these stories from other siblings or other people talking about loss, and they're describing the same exact thing that you're feeling. And the isolation that you feel really early on definitely gets lifted because you are feeling like even if I'm not talking to them when I'm one, at least I know how I'm feeling is not abnormal.

Dr. Angela Dean: 29:54

For sure. And I think with such a disenfranchised loss, like sibling loss or friend loss or even grieving for your unborn niece or nephew, it's hard to explain that or to feel understood in that. Sounds like you had a great counselor.

Amanda Miller: 30:09

I did. She was fantastic with our employee system program. And then I was able to get connected with someone that's family needs. And it's been great. And I've actually still seen her like a year later. And it's just been so incredibly helpful to have not only somebody who understands grief that I can go talk to, but she just has so much knowledge in all other aspects of my life. So I'm able to go to her and I kind of joke with my family that she's our family therapist, even though she's never met them. Because I will talk about family things and she'll give pointers on Jett and my mom. It's a really big transition for Jett and for my mom and my stepmom. And their names are Kathy and Don is my stepmom. They have always been grandmas. You know, they raised their seven kids. And they were in... Lifetime of being a grandma and loved and thrived with that and now they're in a parental role again and they both were looking in the rise and at retirement and.

Dr. Angela Dean: 31:14

Now.

Amanda Miller: 31:14

Caring for a nine-year-old very very energetic boy.

Dr. Angela Dean: 31:18

Yeah i think about that often in middle age like i don't know that i could but i mean they didn't have a choice and so what a what a blessing for them to be able to do that, You put something on this form that I want to read to you. You probably don't remember writing it. You wrote, the hardest part of losing a sibling suddenly is grieving not only the person you loved, but also the relationship that might have been.

Amanda Miller: 31:43

Yeah, that was something I talked about with my grief therapist. Because of Shawna and my relationship, we never really got a chance to mend things after she got back with her son's father. And I was very upset with her for going back because it wasn't a good relationship. Everyone around us knew that. She was happier that summer before she died when they were apart. And the really beautiful thing is that I was able to get my sister when she was happy that summer. And I saw it for a little bit and we had a really, really fun time. Our small town has, like most small towns, a weekend of activities. And one of those is, they call it a street dance so they have a band that plays on main street everything's closed off and you have beer tents and all that stuff i was really happy that i went back home that year because i usually, wasn't going back home for that event because life is so busy with two kids but i went back, i was able to spend that that night with her and it is one of the pictures only pictures i have of us as adults together the 10 years that she was in the relationship with Darren she didn't take many photos. And she really struggled with self-image issues. It was really tough because the Christmas before she died, so just three weeks before she died, my sister from Georgia came to visit for the first time for Christmas in 10 years. She had never been home for Christmas, and her and her daughters came for Christmas that year. But we were all able to be together. And we have a family picture of us, and Shawna didn't want to be in the picture. So all of us are there and Shawna's taking pictures.

Dr. Angela Dean: 33:33

That's hard. How are your relationships with your other siblings in navigating the grief and the loss?

Amanda Miller: 33:41

So prior to losing Shawna, our family's really close. I mean, to the point where even my stepmom and my dad get along very well. You know, they've traveled together, just the three parents, to Georgia to visit my sister. Our family's very atypical in that way. That we can all be in the same house. You know, my two moms and my dad and everyone gets along very well. Even my sister Holly, my step-sister Holly, my dad went to her wedding 10 years ago or so. So it's just like a very atypical family, but we all get along very well. So it is really special to have that connection. losing Shawna actually just made us all closer we all very much grieved the same as the fact that we all want to talk about her every chance we can.

Dr. Angela Dean: 34:34

That's fantastic and i won't forget your brother's name because you said it's.

Amanda Miller: 34:40

Yeah yeah i've listened to your podcast since i found it and i've heard you talk about your brother tony and then it wasn't until you had a recent interview with another podcast that when you said it it it clicked to me and I was like how did that not click before yeah yeah.

Dr. Angela Dean: 34:58

So has your relationship with him also gotten closer than as well.

Amanda Miller: 35:04

Yeah, there's been times in the last year and a half that just with grief and stuff, some people are more willing to be open than others. So it's kind of ebb and flowed. But really, right now, we're at a point where we're coming together even more for Jett as a family. My brother lives like a block away from my mom. So he's able to bring Jett for his haircut. And he's joined him on field trips. Did chaperoning for that. I tell my mom, you might have Jett living at your house, but you're not doing this alone.

Dr. Angela Dean: 35:38

That's fantastic. I love how you said earlier that you do talk about her with Jett as well.

Amanda Miller: 35:44

Yeah, it's really important to us that we bring her up in any conversation that makes sense. I mean, we don't just bring up anything. But if we think of a memory, you're like, oh, we, you know, we did this with Shawna, or like they were at the fair this past summer, and we have a picture of Shawna on the same ride with my oldest daughter and Jett and so we had my two daughters and Jett recreate the picture you know so like we we always make sure to incorporate her into everything when we have family meals like our first easter without her we set a place for her at the table because we wanted to know that we still want her to be here with us and make that kind of a big priority.

Dr. Angela Dean: 36:27

Are there other things that you want to share about the loss or living without her?

Amanda Miller: 36:35

Yeah, it's the one thing about loss and grief is, you know, what we talked about, especially with losing someone young is there's so much to do. When I think about my grandparents passing away, because unfortunately, since losing Shawna, both my dad's parents have passed. So it's been a lot. But my grandparents had everything planned. She had her funeral planned. Everything was set and there was nothing that her kids had to do. Death wise but with Shawna it was probate because she did not have a will she owned the house and so we had to wait until probate was completed that even took a while because there was a backlog of death certificates but we couldn't even get started on any process for months oh and your guardianship we had so i then was helping my parents sell her house and we wanted to sell it without a realtor so we could have money for Jett the most money we wanted to kind of cut out any other fees that could be there so we thankfully found a really nice couple that wanted to buy our house and they rented it during probate so we were not financially obligated to pay the mortgage then when they were able to they bought it and everything worked out perfectly that way and it was just a really really nice couple that we believe that Shawna would have loved to sell house too they have plans for having kids one day and it just felt really right they're very very kind people my dad will sometimes drive by her old house because it's a small town and he sees them outside he'll stop and say hi they understand you know why that's special to us and just like everything that has to take place we still have a storage unit of our stuff because we emotionally could not go through a house full of stuff in a house full of memories and we kind of separated. The things that we knew we wanted right away but we still have this task of going through. A storage unit of stuff. And just thinking about that is very daunting. It almost feels never-ending kind of tasks and things like that. But we're being patient with it because we know that until we're ready to do it, it can stay there. Jett has everything he needs. There was nothing in there that he needed. But just going through her stuff, eventually having to sell it or something like that is going to be really tough. My mom has some clothing of hers. some sweatshirts and stuff. I do as well. And I really love the days when I pick those clothes because there is that very special connection to her. Yeah, we're just continually doing more things. It's just half of losing somebody without a will that really makes me want to and need to plan for myself. I think so many people at young ages feel like nothing would ever happen. And believe me, I never thought we would lose a family member, and especially not in the way we did.

Dr. Angela Dean: 39:44

I work with a lot of young adult cancer survivors, and this is one of the very first things that they're told to do as young adults is to create the will and all of the powers of attorney and documents that you probably know a lot better than I do. Because we don't think of it in young or even middle age. So I wonder if that has shifted how you think about things. and I know that you are also a paralegal so maybe you did already think about that.

Amanda Miller: 40:08

So I never thought of that for myself and I would push my dad like hey you know like get this done for yourself I think prior to losing Shawna I was very like I don't want to talk about death and not that it was such a taboo or anything like that but, it's morbid you know I mean think about my own death as, scary and all those things. Whereas now we definitely openly talk about it because even choosing cremation or burial for Shawna, none of us ever talked about that with her. So to have to choose that for somebody is really tough. So we were able to talk about it as a family. So now we kind of know what each person wants. So if anything were to happen before it's written down on paper. We won't have to guess. It's interesting that you have to lose somebody to start those conversations. And there was times in these year and a half that even Jett was kind of questioning my mom, my mom and Don, that what if something happened to you? Because for him, I'm sure that's something he thinks about often because that day he just went to school and they were gone. So we just reiterate to him that no matter what, he'll be taken care of. It was one big reason why we moved since losing Shawna. My husband and I were in a townhome before, and we wanted to make sure we moved somewhere that could accommodate Jett if he ever needed somewhere else to be, because we just don't know what the future is. So we wanted to move, and we wanted to make sure we moved somewhere that had enough space for all of us.

Dr. Angela Dean: 41:47

So you mentioned bereavement leave had changed in your company. Was it acknowledged for a sibling?

Amanda Miller: 41:54

Yep, it's actually bereavement and caregiver leave. So it's tied into one. So it really doesn't even specify who you get this allotment. And if you need to be off and care for an elderly neighbor that needs to be cared for, you can use it for that as well. They're not asking you to prove who you're going to go bereave. It's up to you to utilize that time for what you need.

Dr. Angela Dean: 42:19

That's beautiful. I wish more companies would do that. I run my own private practice, and there I think my bereavement policy is pretty good. But I was looking at the bereavement policy at the university where I'm an adjunct. It's also where I earned my doctorate. And I specifically, of course, looked to see if sibling was mentioned, and it's not. So that was disappointing, but not surprising.

Amanda Miller: 42:41

Yeah, I took the days and then a vacation time. But then early the next year is when my grandma passed away. So New Year, I was able to get more bereavement. It's something I wish I didn't have to utilize in the past couple years. It's been a lot because my dad lives two and a half hours away and just worrying about him kind of grieving alone. It's been really hard for me. I have my husband, my mom, her partner, Don. We have kind of these support systems. We talk all the time, but it is something I always really, worry about the compound loss of losing Shawna and then both your parents. So it definitely has been really heavy on my heart. I'm a very empathetic person. And so I sit and think about how I'm feeling about things. And then I can only imagine how other people feel. And then I take that on. I'm very thankful for therapy because I'm able to go visit her once a week and unload some of that because it is heavy.

Dr. Angela Dean: 43:45

What would you have wished to have known about sibling loss? I mean, I know that you wish that you didn't know anything about it, but thinking back to January of 2024, what do you wish you would have known? Or what would you want other people to know?

Amanda Miller: 44:00

One thing that really surprised me was the people that you think are going to be there for you are usually the ones who aren't. It was really eye-opening after losing Shawna. The people that you really thought would be closest to you and be there for you and kind of supportive kind of disappeared. A lot of it is because death and dying is not a fun topic, and some people just can't handle that, I guess. So it's really surprising seeing who reached out and who didn't. Another thing is I know other people in my life who have experienced sibling loss with someone young. Although I know it was heartbreaking for them, I never realized how impactful it was every day. I just wish I would have not wished because you don't know what you don't know. But I definitely have reached out to those people differently because unfortunately, I understand. I've been asked many, many times from people even my age, how's your parents?

Dr. Angela Dean: 45:07

Mm-hmm.

Amanda Miller: 45:09

A lot of people ask me about Jett, which is very understandable, but many times in those same conversations that they're asking about my parents and asking about Jett, they don't ask how I am.

Dr. Angela Dean: 45:19

It's always surprising to hear that, but it's so common.

Amanda Miller: 45:23

I almost have to just tell them how I'm feeling because they won't ask. I joke that grief is like a part of my identity now. And whether it's fun or not, I bring up Shawna whenever I can. There's been many times where I've met people and walk away and I'm like, okay, I just trauma dumped on them. And it's something that comes organically, and then they hear everything. It is mostly because it's such a big part of my life. It's one of those things that I never knew that losing someone like this, because of course, I've lost grandparents, but this feels very different. And I didn't know that every morning I wake up and think about it. Every night I go to bed, I look at her picture because I have a little area in my house that's dedicated to her. And I always say goodnight to her. It's just the part of grief that you don't realize is so... Intertwined in every moment of the day and even if you're going to therapy and you're working through things it doesn't take away grief doesn't take away the pain i don't cry every single day and i can talk about her a lot of times without crying but that doesn't change the pain that's.

Dr. Angela Dean: 46:43

A really good point because grief does last forever but it looks different sometimes moment to moment moment. I love that you say goodnight to her and have that space in your house. What a way to stay connected to her.

Amanda Miller: 46:57

Yeah. And we've kind of, everybody's kind of done that in their own individual houses of my family. For Father's Day, I found a picture. I was sent one from my cousin at her wedding, Shawna and my dad together. I had it blown up on a camera. My brother, for his birthday, asked for pictures of him and Shawna. It kind of reminds me of the movie Coco, where they have the family on display. I want my kids to know that she's going to be a part of our day life. I want Jett to know that Shawna is really important to us. And I don't want to put her behind a closed door and pretend like she never was here. It's my mission now that people who didn't know Shawna will know her name. And the ones who did know her won't forget her. I want to continue my relationship with her. And I feel like I have. Just through my own change in spiritual feelings of things, I feel more connected with her now than I ever did. Because I feel her close to me always. When I wear her clothes, everything feels very close. Although I wish we could have had a different relationship before she passed, there's no doubt that she knows.

Dr. Angela Dean: 48:17

I love that you're actively having that relationship with her now. I do think the clothing is not for everybody, but I know I have a couple sweaters with my brothers and I will wear them when I feel like I need a good hug from him. So, yeah.

Amanda Miller: 48:31

And it was really special. Now, the style for teenagers is going back to the same style when Shawna was a teenager. My niece, who is the same age now, Shawna was then. She was able to go through her clothes at my dad's house. And the same things that are in stores right now, she was able to just take out of a box at my dad's house. So it's really special and they feel more connected with her and proud to wear her stuff and her kids lost Shawna too young as their aunt and Shawna really loved being an aunt especially, to my girls and my sister's girls because Shawna had Jett so she didn't get to do some of those things that girls like to do she always liked to do my daughter's hair my daughter is biracial and so her hair is very very curly and it would be funny because she would play with her hair and then she'd come out and she's like what do you think and I'm like no Shawna you know like no, and it was just like that quality time that Ari would have you know with her aunt and Shawna loved just to play with her hair and. Really special because my girls even, they have pictures in their room, like by their bed of Shawna, similar to what we do. She's going to continue to be their aunt, no matter where she is. They know having those things and that relationship with Shawna is going to be helpful to Jett. Because I think one thing that kids worry most about is, would you forget me? And so us reiterating to Jett that we'll never forget Shawna, then he knows we'll never forget him. Shawna was his whole world. prior to going to school he was with her 24 7 because she was a stay-at-home mom and they were together non-stop he never spent the night anywhere without Shawna so as much as i think about Shawna i know he's thinking about her even more yeah.

Dr. Angela Dean: 50:26

Especially when those school things come up around mother's day or whatever.

Amanda Miller: 50:31

And Brighter Days Family Grief Center got signed into law in Minnesota for Children's Grief Awareness Day. We were able to go do a family activity. We went bowling with Brighter Days. And he was able to go to, it's called Camp Aaron, last summer. So it's a bereavement camp for kids who have lost a parent or a significant person in their life. That went as a camper, and I actually volunteered as a camp counselor. It was really special because I was able to spend the day with the teenage group. I really wanted that age range because I wanted to see what our future would be with Jett and just to see how teenagers grieve differently than a nine-year-old. It's very similar in that they don't really want to talk, but then they do share sometimes. And that was a very impactful day for both Jett and I. With my volunteering with brighter days and I'd share their information with anyone when people have lost people they come to me which I appreciate because I want to be there for people and help them if they want like people are there for me and I'm grateful for that because if there's resources out there you don't need to search for them I can give you them so a lot of times when I about a loss of a parent or something, I care with them. I have resources if and when you want them. Because again, I already did the work. There's no reason for you to have to try to find those things when you're already doing a lot of other stuff.

Dr. Angela Dean: 52:05

Yeah, that's fantastic. What are your favorite memories of you and Shawna?

Amanda Miller: 52:12

We grew up in a really small town. And when my parents first got divorced, we lived in this really small town where we would go play at the park. And then in the summer, my sister, Shawna and I would go visit my mom together. And then it would be a different time. My older brother and sister would. We'd have our more intimate time visiting them. It was a three-hour drive. And we stopped on the way. And we all went to this park and played. Compared to our small town, this park was huge. So it was super fun just to be at that park with Shawna and my mom and Don and just run around and play. One of the other memories, Shawna was there at the hospital with me when I had my first daughter. At first, I invited her because she was at that age where I was hoping that she wasn't ready to be a mom for a while. So I was like, here, come see this, and maybe it'll keep you from having a child for a while. But it was just such an amazing thing to see her spring into action. She wasn't scared of anything. She probably would have been a really, really good labor and delivery nurse. I thought she'd be scared and everything in that atmosphere, and she thrived. She wanted to help me, and she wanted anything I needed, and I was like, Shawna, you're good. We have nurses for these things. That was really special. I remember the night that she had Jett. We knew she was close to giving birth, so I was at my mom's house, and then she called us, and it was that evening that my mom and I drove to the hospital to meet Jett. It's funny because right now he has really light hair, but the first day we met, he had Jett black hair, and it was full, and it was just almost shocking because even my kids didn't have that much hair. Just to see Shawna become a mom and she loved kids. Whenever we were at a family gathering, she was always holding my kids. There's just some people in the world that are made to be a mom. And that was definitely her. I think if she had the choice, she would have just been a mom and just had a house full of kids because she just loved all of that. Everything that came with that the past summer i had mentioned that she had bought her house and was living, with just her and Jett and we had so much fun that night we had some drinks and we danced on the street and having fun with her like we haven't had fun for a really long time and just to see her like truly happy and I really thought this was going to be a forever thing with her I really, hoped and prayed that she would be strong and not go back to the relationship but I know. That's easier said than done. The one time I visited her at her house, I was out with some of my friends from high school. And then my dad locked me out of his house when he went to sleep. So I called Shawna and she lived close by. And I was like, dad locked the door. I was like, can you come pick me up? So she came in the middle of the night to come pick me up. And then we just sat at her table and I had some food that she had made earlier. And we just visited at her table. Those are the moments of siblings we were talking about everything and anything and we were just there together and it was just a really special moment so that part's hard for me that we had such good moments during that time and then i wasn't able to get back to that before losing her yeah.

Dr. Angela Dean: 55:47

What a beautiful set of memories though well thank you for sharing and thanks for introducing us to Shawna and yourself today.

Amanda Miller: 55:54

Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity to share about her.

Outro: 55:59

Thank you so much for listening. Our theme song was written by Joe Mylward and Brian Dean and performed by Joe Mylward. The Broken Pack is more than a podcast. Visit thebrokenpack.com to sign up for Wild Grief, our newsletter, and to explore everything else we're building. If today's episode resonated, you can send us fan mail or support the show using the links in the show notes. Information on Wild Grief, our social media, resources, and our guests can be found wherever you get your podcasts. Please like, follow, subscribe, and share. Thanks again.